On Friday, January 30, 2015 a California state appeals court rejected the latest endeavours of Michael Jackson’s mother and children to reverse a jury’s decision that exonerated AEG Live of negligence in connection with the King of Pop’s death.
The three-judge panel ruled that the pop superstar’s mother, Katherine Jackson, and his three children are not entitled to a new trial after their attorneys submitted that AEG Live was liable for Jackson’s treatment, and that confusing, narrow-scoped jury instructions contributed to the jury’s exoneration of AEG. (Click here for the full story)
While I don’t usually post non-artistry related articles here, I felt compelled to share the following, which was written by award-winning UK journalist and longtime Jackson advocate, Charles Thomson.
Contributed by Charles Thomson
I can’t say I’m surprised by this decision – not because I thought the Jacksons were in the wrong, but because I believe the process was undermined from the moment the original judge removed ‘duty of care’ as an issue in the case. It meant the only angle the Jacksons could pursue was the very narrow premise that AEG negligently hired Murray.
Even then, I thought they had a decent case – but it removed a lot of ammunition from the Jacksons’ arsenal.
I found the jury’s verdict very puzzling. They claimed that because Murray had a medical licence, that meant he was competent – and that because that meant he was competent, AEG was not negligent.
But by their logic, Harold Shipman was competent.
Murray was not competent. For example, when he administered CPR to Michael Jackson, he did it wrong. That is basic first aid, and he got it wrong. His actions were not only unethical, but criminal. He was an idiot and about as far from competent as I can possibly imagine.
AEG knew there were potential risks when it came to hiring Michael Jackson a personal doctor. We know they knew, because they talked about it in emails. Correspondence between the big players acknowledged, for instance, that there would be an inherent danger in hiring a doctor with a bad financial situation, because he could be tempted to bend the rules in his desperation to keep the gig.
And so they claimed they did a background check on Murray specifically to make sure this wasn’t the case. They said that background check came back fine. Turns out that was not true.
They didn’t do a background check on Murray. Had they done, they would have discovered that the very risk they identified in their emails was lurking in Murray’s background; he had terrible debts and really needed the gig. But they lied about doing a background check and claimed that problem didn’t exist. Why they did that was never explained. Randy Phillips simply claimed he didn’t remember writing the relevant email and so couldn’t tell the jurors, or Michael Jackson’s grieving mother and orphaned children, why he’d done it.
In my opinion, on the basis of that email chain alone, it would be an open and shut case. The big players identified a potential risk, assumed responsibility for that risk, identified a way to circumvent that risk, but then failed to implement it and simply pretended they’d done it instead.
I find it bizarre, under those circumstances, that the jurors could completely absolve AEG of responsibility. The Jacksons found it bizarre too, so they investigated what had happened. They obtained sworn depositions from jurors who said they had wanted to find AEG culpable, but they felt the judge’s instructions were written in such an incredibly narrow way that as long as they concluded Murray had a medical licence – which he clearly did, like every other corrupt or incompetent doctor currently practicing in America – they had no choice but to find against the Jacksons.
The Jacksons’ initial appeal was heard by the same judge whose decision they were complaining about – a frankly surreal and idiotic scenario that common sense surely dictates should not be allowed. I’m not sure that could happen in the UK, for instance. It strikes me as being akin to asking a police officer to investigate an allegation about their own alleged misconduct.
When the appeal reached the higher court, it was reported that the judges kept asking irrelevant questions about how AEG could have known Murray was giving Michael Jackson Propofol. In my opinion, this was an ill-conceived line of questioning about a side-issue with no bearing on the material facts of the appeal, which centred on the judge’s limiting instructions, about which multiple jurors with no vested interest in the outcome had complained.
Is it a surprise that a group of judges would uphold the decision of another judge? I don’t think so. I would expect them to. In my view, the establishment often unwittingly falls into the trap of assuming the system is perfect and its administrators are unassailable; ‘If a seasoned judge thought it was right, it must be right’. In many cases, it seems the establishment’s default position is to protect itself. In the past, that has resulted in horrific travesties of justice.
Remember when Troy Davis begged for a lie detector test to prove his innocence in the days before he was executed? And the courts refused permission and executed him instead? Why? If everybody was so convinced he was guilty and deserved to die, why not let him take the test; one final humiliation? It came across as though the establishment was afraid of the results and wanted to kill him before its processes could be undermined, even if that was not the intention behind the decision.
But as sad as this news is, it’s worth keeping in mind the one shred of good that has come out of all this; baffling verdict aside, the Jacksons unarguably won the moral victory.
The AEG trial was perhaps the greatest and most public exposé of the music industry the world has ever seen. The Jacksons put all those incredibly disturbing, damaging and shocking emails into the public domain; emails about slapping Michael Jackson because he wouldn’t do as he was told. About screaming at him. Emails calling him a freak. Emails referring to him as though her were a petulant and idiotic child, and joking about tricking him into signing the contract by making him think he’d earn more money than he actually would.
Emails which proved that current Michael Jackson Estate executor John Branca not only knew about Michael Jackson’s health problems before his death, but was involved in desperately trying to combat them before opening night. This courtroom revelation came not long after he had appeared on television claiming he had no idea why the Jacksons believed Michael was ill in his final days, and not long after the Estate publicly criticised the Jacksons for bringing the case, and ridiculed them as disgruntled conspiracy theorists.
The trial vindicated Karen Faye, vindicated Jermaine Jackson – vindicated everyone who raised concerns about Michael Jackson’s health before he died and everyone who blew the whistle afterwards, only to be portrayed as liars and fantasists by the big players whose profits they were potentially jeopardising, and the various fans who act as their agents.
So this is sad news. But all is not lost. They didn’t win the day, but they exposed the truth. And that is infinitely more important than any technical victory.
Click here to follow Charles Thomson on Twitter.
###
Follow Damien Shields on Facebook and Twitter to stay up-to-date with Michael Jackson-related news.
Does the “slapping” refer to the one incident where Randy Phillips screamed and slapped him on the butt in the cold shower because Michael was drunk and despondent. I would have slapped his ass too! The author sounds a little drama queen to me.
If you research you will see Randy Phillips has changed his definition of the Slap several times. When he first was telling it to his friends and other AEG CRONIES he was very happy to say he slapped and screamed at Michael saying he hit Michael harder than another person he admitted hitting. Seems Randy Phillips gets into being the bully.
Another important fact that came out was, in contracts Conrad Murray was suppose to get a huge salary each month to be with Michael during the London concerts, I think it was a hundred fifty thousand dollars a month.. but it was found by legal representatives the was going thru contracts, that Conrads salary was only oked to be paid for 2 months before they wete to leave for London .meaning AEGhad not alloted any more money to pay Conrad.. but get this AEG took out accident/death insurance policies signed 3 days before Michael died and these policies were paid completely thru the whole London Tour. So AEG basically said by doing that
Is that they would not need a Doctor for Michael after he let here, only accident/death policies needed to be paid up, because for some reason Michael would not be alive to need a Doctor ..so this was all found out after the trial, other lawyers and contract experts completely went thru all the papers that AEG had between all parties involved in this Tour. But no one bothered to go thru the contracts before or during the trial, the courts were looking into Michaels health and how much everyone was afraid for him being unwell to perform, and Conrads role in using drugs To control him. No one was looking beyond that. So the end result is AEG KNEW OR PLANNED FOR MICHAEL NOT TO MAKE IT THRU THE TOUR. HE WAS WORTH MORE DEAD TO AEG AND OTHERS THAN ALIVE…
The only testimony that Phillips’ slapping email referred to ‘an encouraging slap on the butt like a football coach’, came from Randy Phillips – and it did not tally at all with the tone of his email. Frankly, I fail to see how any right-minded individual could interpret that explanation as anything but absurd. I think you’d have to be a special kind of idiot to find it remotely believable.
‘This is the scariest thing I’ve ever seen… Tohme and I just threw him in a shower… I just slapped him and screamed louder than I screamed at Arthur Cassel.’
Yea. Sounds very ‘encouraging’. Just like your average, friendly, paternal, all-American football coach.
I notice, Heath, that you’ve conveniently skipped over all the other extremely damaging emails sent by the AEG head honchos. The ones about tricking him into signing up because they knew he wouldn’t do it if he knew how much he was really earning. Or the ones about threatening him with financial ruin if he didn’t do as he was told. About the one calling him a ‘freak’.
And what of Kenny Ortega’s email? Slipped the old mind, did it Heath? Let me refresh it for you. It was an email about how Michael Jackson was so stressed during rehearsals he wasn’t eating. He had to be hand-fed and even then, his trousers had to be taken in every time he arrived for rehearsals? Ortega wrote that Michael Jackson was suffering shivers, rambling about nonsense and seemed like a ‘lost boy’. He told AEG bosses that Michael Jackson needed immediate psychological intervention.
In case you’d forgotten their response as well, Heath, they told Ortega to stop playing amateur doctor and leave Michael Jackson’s health to Dr Murray, who they had hired. They said they would ‘remind’ Dr Murray that he worked for AEG, and what AEG expected of him. Then they called a crisis meeting, at which witnesses reported that Phillips spoke angrily and abusively to Michael Jackson; that a vase was broken.
The conduct by those in charge, revealed by the Jacksons via evidence and testimony in this court case, is completely and utterly indefensible. Only an imbecile would even attempt to defend that conduct, because it’s plain stupid. It’s like pointing at a blue sky and claiming it’s green.
Michael Jackson lived out his last days a weak, frightened, confused, distressed, depressed, maligned mess. According to Kenny Ortega; a ‘basket case’ and a ‘lost boy’, who begged those around him not to abandon him. That is unassailable, incontrovertible fact. It’s all there in the contemporaneous emails, written at a time when the correspondents had no reason to think the world would ever see them and at a time when, by their own admission on the stand, they can’t think of any good reason why they would have been lying.
Defending AEG is a waste of your time and energy. You will only betray your own dishonest agenda, and make yourself look like a very, very silly person in the process.
Ok, wow. I hope you feel better. I don’t know about any of the things you wrote about, I just read about the shower incident and made a comment based on the fact the article said there were emails regarding slapping him. I was asking if this sentence was referring to the shower incident or were there other incidents. Because if that’s what the “slapping” means I say “so what, wah,” maybe that’s what was needed for a professional being drunk before go time in Madison Square Garden. I’m not saying it’s ok to slap people, I’m saying it’s not necessarily indicative of abuse. If your some over sensitive pansy, sure you might think that’s abuse. Unless there was other incidents of beatings – I don’t know I didn’t overlook or forget anything as you accuse because I am not even knowledgable of the testimony. That’s why I was asking my question. Again, I was referring to physical slapping, not possible other types of abuse or neglect.
But thanks for alerting me that I was defending AEG and have an agenda. Seems to me they won in court anyway and therefore I don’t need an agenda.
Don’t think there isn’t greed on every side of the table. I wouldn’t doubt AEG had greedy or maybe even mean spirited players involved, but Jackson was paying $100,000 month rent at Carolwood in gross indulgence, concerned about acquiring the “Wonderland” home in Vegas. And that’s just the rent, only a small part of the excess. That’s just plain stupid given his financial stress at the time. Despite all his charities and kind fiscal acts in life, he was forced into swimming with the sharks on their terms due to his own ridiculous worldliness and excess, and fiscal irresponsibility. It goes all ways.
Heath, It might be a good idea to do some research before commenting. Once again you’ve made a mistake. This time believing the tabloid press about MJ’s ridiculous excesses and fiscal irresponsibility being his own fault for his debts. If you do some research into the debts (and his life in general), you will find that lies/bad advice by managers/lawyers and greed by those surrounding him weighs heavily into the accumulation of the debts. Unfortunately, their wasn’t a soul who cared for anything about MJ, but only getting a piece of the pie for themselves. Not everything is as it appears.
Charles Thompson is right, in that at least this trial exposed some of the emails written by the greedy players involved this time. MJ was surrounded by this type of people since he was a boy. Fawning over him publicly, while abusing his trust and screwing him every chance they got. His biggest concern while living in LA was the security and privacy of his children. As a loving parent he would pay any amount of rent to ensure that. You can bet the rent of that mansion was inflated especially for Michael Jackson, as was everything else in his life. His managers/handlers/advisors always got their cut too.
The house rent is just one example of lavish excess and materialism. He didn’t have to pay $100,000 month rent in Holmby Hills full of kitschy half real antiques to ensure security and privacy for his children, and a confidential lease could avoid an inflated rent. That’s hogwash. He was a grown man and the excess he purchased and people he surrounded himself was his choice and responsibility.
What was my first mistake?
I am a big MJ fan and supporter and admirer of his talents. I don’t ignore the burdens of fame, or injustices from media, or some of the greedy or manipulative people that surrounded him. But he was also surrounded by good and talented people. When he was not surrounded by his core group of talented and genuine friends, things went south. His true core was candid with him, and didn’t patronize or enable him. However, at some point you have to be responsible stop all the have you seen my childhood, woe is me,poor Michael BS. He was a grown adult capable of choosing who he surrounded himself with, and responsible for his own choices, not just fiscally. Some have written about the business savvy Michael. Which is it, is he capable of making business choices or not? Seems to me when there is drugs involved, there is little hope of wise influence and responsible choices.
Thanks Damien, took guts to post that article. It’s weird you have to have guts to post something that actually defends Michael and the Jackson family on a Michael Jackson site LOL.
Heath: the slap wasn’t a big deal, Michael rented an overpriced home because he wanted to recklessly spend money he didn’t have, AND now you say drugs clouded his judgement. Dude, go somewhere with that nonsense ROTFLMAO! There are plenty of other MJ sites disguised as loving Michael but, really love AEG, Sony, and the executors more that will enjoy your BS.
1. The shower slap doesn’t seem like abuse, but it might or might not be
2. Michael did recklessly spend money
3. When Michael was on drugs, drugs clouded his judgement
Yes. I said those things. Thanks for the summary.
Heath, don’t wanna clarify what you said? LOL, let me help you…
1. a business partner slapping another business partner is not cool regardless of circumstances
2. Michael didn’t pay for that house rental, AEG did and the rental price was raised because it was Michael (Phillips, and I quote: “I’m paying for the toilet paper he wipes his f**king ass with.”)
3. Michael wasn’t on any drugs in 2009; only the drugs Murray gave him.
3. Michael wasn’t on any drugs in 2009; only the drugs Murray gave him…
meant to finish that….
Murray gave Michael a few things to help him sleep which didn’t really confuse Michael. It was lack of sleep that confused him.
Kind of like how it wasn’t freebasing crack with 151 proof rum that hurt Richard Pryor, it was the fire.
2 months no REM
http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/21/showbiz/jackson-death-trial/
I never said Michael was on recreational drugs.
???
1. The context was speculation of physical abuse, not what you think is “not cool.”
2. Michael very deliberately picked the house. (In one of most exclusive addresses, near old Elvis Presley home and Disney Carolwood address). He also deliberately lived in excess, at times when more money was going out then coming in, in many ways besides the house.
3. Michael chose to take drugs, an adult decision, at various points in his life, regardless of circumstances. His choice. His responsibility.
Still trying Heath LOL
1. It’s not what either of us think is cool because legally it’s battery. Michael could’ve sued Phillips for battery if he wanted.
2. Michael picked the house and AEG AGREED to pay for it. The rent was increased because the renter was Michael. You still wanna blame MJ for excess when it was the landlord that profited from his celebrity? LOL.
3. We know Michael took drugs for various reasons including health reasons in case you forgot. We also know Michael successfully detoxed and didn’t take ANY drugs in 2009 for recreation. His confusion came from lack of sleep. Propofol doesn’t allow for real sleep.
Read the transcripts. You’ll learn alot.
You know, my original opinion was that the shower slap incident might not necessarily be abuse, and that the article refers to “damaging” and “shocking” emails regarding slapping. My original question asked was there other physical slapping or beating incident besides the shower, because some might find the single shower incident not such a “shocking” or abusive occurrence. Now you may speculate that is was some shocking abuse, and your opinion is just as valid.
My other opinion was were there was likely greed on all sides, and that Michael lived a life of excess that reasonably means he chose to get involved with people who also had mutual interests in making big $$$ which provides such luxurious privileges of wealth. He often spent more than was coming in-FACT. I also opined that drugs can cloud judgement and MJ took drugs whether you want to believe they forced him in his body or he chose to take them. I believe he likely chose them like most addicts.
After I made my comments, Yabber says that my opinion would make me a special kind of idiot.” and that I have a ” dishonest agenda.” Then Wanda states “it might be a good idea to do some research before commenting,” (because she concludes I haven’t done any research) Wanda then says, “Once again you’ve made a mistake.” Because she says I am guilty of “believing the tabloid press about MJ’s ridiculous excesses and fiscal irresponsibility being his own fault for his debts.”
Then MegaMj is “ROTFLMAO” and lots of LOL.”… “Don’t want to clarify” …”Still trying.”
The irony about you hyper-sensitive defensive personalities is you appear attuned and concerned on issues regarding possible abuse and defending a victim, yet you are very snarky, hateful and accusatory in tone because one’s opinion is different than your thoughts. Instead of stating a mature counter, you get your panties in a wad and rudely attack. This is common internet culture behind a computer screen, where one is slower to be respectful unlike if you were in the same room with real people. Your attacks seem more about last word, then the larger picture.
My point was I don’t know to what degree each party was in the right or wrong. I am not a defender of AEG. However, at some point you can’t keep playing the “woe is Michael” card. I have been a defender of MJ on several issues throughout his career. However, Michael was the one responsible for his choices and actions. He was responsible for his commitments, health, debt, litigation. These issues followed him throughout his career. Because drama and controversy were a common theme, many times he was indeed not given the benefit of doubt or a fair shake when he deserved it. My bigger point is one can’t constantly deflect blame. BE RESPONSIBLE. I’m tired of the “poor Michael” the victim B.S.
His talents and musical contributions are so much bigger.
#2 is is correct on the surface, but it’s not true that AEG agreed to pay the rent. *AEG agreed to LOAN $ for the house rent as an artist advance. They also loanMichael an additional $2 million advance in spending money
That’s like saying your bank agreed to “pay” your house by giving you a mortgage.
The toilet paper was referring to the fact Michael was living on their credit-a $2,000,000 advance. Ie. Michael was in debt to pay back that toilet paper.
Thank you Charles for writing about the KJ vs AEG case and Damien for publishing. It seems like you are the only MJ journalist/bloggers who reported this, the silence of others is deafening . It is sad that tabloid garbage generates more outrage than the moral , ethical and legal travesty comitted by AEG. I think that it would only be understood if the victim had not been Michael Jackson but Barbara Streisand or Mick Jagger or Justin Bieber for that matter. The truth is that everyone involved knew that there were problems and that they were medical. Even fans who only saw Michael briefly and from a distance could tell. Dancers and productionteam were asked to pray for him . The “ Trouble at the front” emails tell it all.
To AEG Murrays killing of Michael was just collatoral damage .Weeks after Michael died Randy Philips wrote in an email that “Michaels Jackson’s death is a terrible tragedy. But life must go on. AEG will make a fortune from merch sales, ticket retention, the touring exhibition and the film/dvd,”
This outcome however is not surprising considering how entangled AEG, LA and the MJE executors .sony are. It was AEG who hired Branca and forced him upon Michael ( “because he knew where the bodies in sonys closet were buried’- as per Randy Philips ) and all his actions since Michael died prove that his favors to AEG go beyond the scope of what the estate of Michael Jackson owed them. From the Tohme case that he wants to keep under wraps to the compensation of AEG for their /his ‘damages’ .even before he was appointed executor. Everything hints at sidedeals Branca had with AEG that had nothing to do with the MJE. It was also Branca who through Weizman publically denounced the KJ vs AEG case in a shameless expose of disloyalty towards the ones who he is paid to represent. And this is only the public side of it .
The leaked sony emails from july 2009 to last year confirm the suspicions that many fans and Michael have always had , but still it is surreal to read them .How sony tried to influence the trial : “This revised draft statement incorporates xxxx thoughts and a slight tweak: While we are not taking sides in this criminal case, we have filed a motion to quash Dr. Murray’s subpoena. There are several legal and business reasons explained in our brief and ultimately this is a matter for the court to decide “
The close alliance between AEG , the executors of MJE and sony and KJ as the enemy who they kept crucial information from . How Branca as co executor/representative of the MJE who is in a billiondollar deal with sony and has a feduciary duty towards the MJE , OFFERs sony to represent them in negotiating the sale of their part of the catalogue .As of april 2014 Branca has taken up a position as consultant for sony , negotiating music /entertainment related deals for them. If even sony, puzzled at the offer which they called ‘ironic’, but probably thinking they could use it to their advantage, stated their concern for a conflict of interest , then how come Branca as a lawyer didnt consider that. It is clear where his loyalties do not lie or are the rats fleeing the sinking ship?
.
As for the often heard meme about the legal cost of the AEG lawsuit . Katherine Jackson is majority shareholder of her sons estate , and is free to spend her money accordingly. Probate didnt stop the executors from cashing their executors fee and other revenues that Michael generated, giving a new meaning to the word beneficiary.
To put things in perspective : KJ has a 800 000 bill to AEG to be paid from her share of the estate. VS the track record of the executors :
8.000.000 claim from the IRS to be paid by Michaels ( = KJs and PPBs ) estate . Because that is how the will was drafted by Brancas lawfirm. Not by accident .
Lawsuits caused by the executors for potentially several million dollar claims by QJ , for the Cascsio tracks and Tohmes lawsuit.
But worst of all, and ironically , because of mismanagement and incompetence of the same people (Weizman/Branca )21 years ago, Michael ended up paying Chandler 14 million dollars and the price of a life long stain to his name which continues five years after he died.
I hope KJ and Michaels kids will continue this fight and proceed to a hopefully more impartial supreme court as Michael would have wanted her to do. After all she is his mother ,the only one who lived through all his trials and tribulations, who had to lay him to rest , has obligations towards him and his children, has the right, the legal standing and the means and hopefully the stamina to fight for justice for her child.
forgot a few 00 s .more exactly 702.000.000 !!
Nice post but, I’m not sure the SC would be more partial. The system is only as fair as its players.
I think Katherine did the right thing by Michael too and now the whole world knows about those AEG SOBs (and so many others).
We got the truth. Whether people agree with it or not doesn’t change that.
I do not have my hopes high either, I have read enough about the Ca justice sytem . AEG is so entangled with the city council , funding facilities, involved in city development , city marketing and charaties, I dont think LA will risk to lose this ‘partnership’. Check out their twitter account . https://twitter.com/AEGworldwide/with_replies
But that does not mean KJ should give up, that is simply no option. Her son left her enough resources. I am a mother and I would do the same form my child.
“But that does not mean KJ should give up, that is simply no option. Her son left her enough resources. I am a mother and I would do the same form my child.”
Sina, I agree with you but, IMO, KJ is not giving up if she doesn’t go for the appeal. I think she did great and I wouldn’t find fault with her if she stopped here or if her lawyers advised her to stop here.
She achieved what she set out to do, get some answers and expose AEG for what they did. Alot of people don’t know what it was like for a mother to go to that trial everyday and hear what AEG said about her son. That had to hurt like nothing else.
Maybe other artists will be more careful in the future and know their interest is not above any money these companies can make.
Heath, you posted Michael was drunk and maybe deserved to be slapped, he spent recklessly, and drugs clouded his decision. It’s your opinion that Michael, the victim in the AEG trial, is the reason for everything and anything that happened to him, including his own death. There are people who share your opinion. I’m not one of them and neither are the other people who responded to you.
If you knew the facts of the case, you would know your opinion is only your opinion and not the facts. I gave you the facts: that slap could be termed as battery, the rent on the house was inflated by the landlord because Michael was the renter, and Michael didn’t have ONE drug for recreational use during 2009.
If you’re calling the facts of the case being listed for you as an attack, then it’s your panties that are in a wad because no one will accept your opinion as fact because they know the facts.
Read the transcripts.
“It’s your opinion that Michael, the victim in the AEG trial, is the reason for everything and anything that happened to him, including his own death.”….
You put words in my mouth. I also didn’t say he “deserved to be slapped.” I said I “would have slapped him too,” meaning if I thought it might save the show I just might.
Do you just make up implications as you go, MegaMJ? My comments are above.
Here’s a fact- the slap wasn’t termed battery (could of would of). If anything after the word “could of” is a fact, then the turkey COULD have been the national bird had Benjamin Franklin had his way, Prince COULD have named himself something besides a symbol, and the Seahawks COULD have won the SuperBowl.
Here’s another fact-Michael didn’t have to choose nor accept any “inflated rent”, inflated advance, nor that particular house or landlord.
Another fact-you, nor anyone other than Michael, could possibly know all substances that were put in his body over any period of time unless he was constantly tested and not left alone every single moment.
The only thing I indicated as an “attack” was your unnecessary snarkiness.
You points make no sense to me, and we’ll just agree to disagree.
Heath, I never said you said Michael deserved to be slapped. Maybe you tripped over the word “maybe” in that sentence LOL.
You can miss me on everything else you wrote. Why? Cause what I wrote was the facts in the case and what you wrote is “could’ve, would’ve, should’ve” which is nothing but your wishful thinking. Michael could have sued Phillips for battery. Michael could have picked another house that was cheaper (and maybe less secure for him and his kids) that AEG would pay for. Michael could have took every drug in the world for fun just as long he knew EXACTLY when to stop so none of them would show up in his body by June 2009 and he wouldn’t have any withdrawal symptoms. ROFLMAO!!!!
You don’t have to like it what I wrote. It doesn’t make any of those facts less than the actual, factual truth.
I didn’t say “maybe” he deserved to be slapped either. ?? It’s not about deserving, Again, I said I, me, might have slapped him if I were in panic DEFCON 1 mode to save his and my ass and get him on stage! For the good of him, me, and many others. Yep, he could sue me.
Are you saying the fact that one “could” sue for battery is a FACT of the case? One can sue anyone for a many reasons-your case may get tossed out but one could indeed sue. I could sue someone for looking at me wrong if I wanted to try. Yes, if someone even touched me I could sue them for battery if I could prove that the touch was intended, not permitted, and caused harm or offensive to me.
Are we really debating the house? Michael lived an extra luxurious life. The house was part of the deal to get him on stage. As far as rent it was probably all relative. My point was he was in debt and spending beyond his means. He was difficult to stop him and according to some close to him he was seemingly fiscally clueless. I don’t know his heart, but by many clues it appears much of his career, like many of us, we get absorbed by worldliness and materialism to trying to find peace and happiness. It never works. When things become an idol we end up miserable. A house that luxurious in Beverly Hills for his kid’s “protection?” Seriously? C’mon he wanted the fanciest place, amenities and lifestyle he could get any way he could -which was basically credit or advances. His expensive lifestyle was his prerogative, but he was in massive debt. He was obsessed with what fans thought of his image. It was a heavy burden to worry about.
I think you are referencing the toxicology report? I can debate this topic for hours, but it wasn’t my original point. Yes I get Murray gave him drugs (and your belief the drugs he gave him were the only ones in his body) but Michael wasn’t chained down and administered, at least not that one could prove.
I see why you won’t read the transcripts. You aren’t clearly reading the posts here LOL.
I never said you said “maybe.”
Panish spent plenty of time with Phillips trying to “remember” how the slap happened. That slap showed Phillips disrespected Michael that he would use physical force. Michael could’ve sued for battery but, you wouldn’t know that because you don’t know the facts of the case.
In your opinion (!!!!) Michael wanted the fanciest place, etc. The fact was he wanted a house that offered security. He picked that and the landlord immediately raised the rent but, you wouldn’t know that because you don’t know the facts of the case.
You can’t debate the toxicology report for hours because you can’t debate it at all. Michael didn’t take any recreational drug in 2009 but, you wouldn’t know that because you don’t know the facts of the case.
How many different ways can I write those three things? Your opinion is your opinion but, your opinions aren’t the facts.
It’d be easier to just sit and read some of those transcripts before you come back and write the same thing all over again…….
I have read the transcripts and have watched video at teammichaeljackson.com and other sources.
My original comments and opinion stand up the same as when I initially posted them.
I can clearly read your posts, the same as I can clearly read the transcripts, but you are going in circles.
MegaMJ,Here is your quote above:
“Heath, you posted Michael was drunk and maybe deserved to be slapped,…”
Then MegaMJ says,
“Heath, I never said you said Michael deserved to be slapped. Maybe you tripped over the word “maybe” in that sentence LOL.”
Then MegaMJ says, “I never said you said “maybe.” ”
Huh? Are you Yogi Berra?
Look I read the testimonies, I saw the typical attorney “yes or no” bullying B.S. to try to get Phillips to state for record he screamed or yelled,(and likewise the typical defendant, Phillips, trying to dodge the yes or no forced questioning), that they were waiting for an article of clothing,
And even the question that MJ’ being drunk or despondent was exaggerated (he may have not even been drunk at all),…….I read all that. It doesn’t change my original opinion.
I think you just want to argue to get a last word. I can discuss how the transcripts relate to the Carolwood house or recreational drug history/toxicology reports but obviously you are in the “Michael the victim” side, and I’m not completely agreeing with that premise. I agree with some of it. I see some victimization, but I go back to my same stance that one has to be responsible and accountable to some extent. Phillips and company could have been an ***holes, but Phillips may have been pretty accurate about the self loathing. This type of hyper drama surfaces in stories time and again for years; these type issues followed him. It can’t always be someone else’s fault-“It’s the landlords fault, it’s the doctors fault, it’s the attorney’s fault, it’s the estates fault, the label’s fault, the family’s fault,it’s the jury’s fault, it’s the dry cleaners fault….” In the MJ the victim land, it’s ALWAYS someone else’s fault. There’s so often drama, exception, and excuses.
You know other celebrities might just have their damn clothes ready and just get to the press conference on time, then no drama happens.
wow, Heath introduces some refreshing logic and pragmitism to the Mj discussion, and he is immediately hit back by the same, tired old mooting points of the mj fan community. I think what a lot of MJ fans need to throw away is the notion of *absolute* victim and *absolute* oppressor with regards to discussions of MJ’s character and his life. Sure, he was f*cked around a lot in life but he had the chance on numerous occasions to sure his life up and change things around. No one forced him to surround him self with the type of people that took leeched and took advantage of him. Everything has consequences and it’s sad that Michael didn’t change the things that were needed to avoid a lot of the problems that he faced.
With regards to the article, I’m not sure what the writer is expecting. Because there is one missing email that alludes that AEG didn’t do a background check, is not grounds for convicting AEG of negligence. For how much all of you like reading trial transcripts maybe you should sure up on some legal 101 and common-sense…
MJ was my favorite creator,( not just singer, dancer, writer, performer, producer), of my generation. In all his kindness, charity, charm, and charisma he had many faults like all of us because he was human. And that’s ok, God still loves him as well as millions of fans. His legacy is sound.
I have found that I often can’t speak pragmatically or real in some forums because you will get attacked by the absolute police. The irony is that MJ was generally very un-confrontational and polite, (blessed are the peacemakers) yet in their attempt to defend MJ the victim, some can get pretty disrespectful with unnecessary snide remarks. I’m reading the transcripts looking at the “facts” trying to consider the commenters’ points while I’m being called an idiot, I’m accused of defending AEG “dishonest agenda,” or mocked- how many times is MegaMJ ROFLHAO? I am knowledgable of judicial procedure, and I’ve graduated from the school of hard knocks so the name calling or rudeness doesn’t bother me:) I’m just scratching my head at the often grossly biased logic and absolute thought.
“My original comments and opinion stand up the same as when I initially posted them.”
Best thing you said in that whole post. The rest I read before LOL. Nothing will change the fact that Michael was the victim in the AEG trial and the Murray trial. It’s also a fact that Michael is only responsible for his own actions and not the actions of AEG or Murray. Their action caused the lawsuits against them so, whether you agree with Michael’s actions, doesn’t matter. He didn’t cause his own death.
You can forget all of that though cause you finally have someone who agrees with you YAY! ROFLMAO!
I was knowledgable enough regarding details of the case to justify my opinion. You suggested that I needed to read the transcripts to see my opinion was wrong and not the facts. So I labored through lines of transcripts,exhibits, and video and found little different than I had read in editorial, and my opinion is exactly the same and based on FACTS in the transcripts.
So I respectfully disagree there are “facts” in the transcripts that disprove my opinion in all three points regarding the slapping, the excessive spending and 1.2 million rent advance, and the various drugs that Michael chose to let Murray give him.
I suppose if I chose to drive to work, and died in a crash after I ran a red light, it might be the car manufacturers fault, the traffic light maker’s fault, the driving schools fault, the city’s fault, my employers fault, the weatherman’s fault, other drivers fault….plus it’s not fair I even had to drive, I’m color blind, and a very timid driver. My friends should have not persuaded me I could drive alone and not take a taxi… wait, it’s my friends’ fault! They coerced me to sign over my insurance, and other friends even got a kick back. I’m a victim!
On of the most inspiring books I’ve ever read is Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. Frankl was a world renowned Austrian neurologist, and a Holocaust survivor. Frankl writes, “freedom is in danger of degenerating into mere arbitrariness unless it is lived in terms of responsibleness. ” He even suggests we build a Statue of Responsibility on the west coast to supplement the Statue of Liberty on the east coast.
Freedom can only be balanced by Responsibility.
Be Responsible!
You read all of the transcripts and they support your opinion? Nope, don’t think so…
The transcripts aren’t based on your opinion. I never said your opinion was wrong dude, I said your opinions aren’t the facts. Now I already said this a few times so, only a fool would keep up with this and I’m no fool.
You have your opinion and then there are facts. The three things you keep repeating over, and over, and maybe again in your next post, …. LOL weren’t even the reasons AEG were found not liable. If you read all of the transcripts you would know why AEG wasn’t liable. Shoot, let me give you the Cliff Notes! … Go straight to the closing statements from Putnam (that’s if you actually are reading the transcripts). The jurors thought Murray was competent cause he had a medical license. Has nothing to do with Michael and the three things you keep repeating over, and over, and over, and… LOL.
MegaMJ, I wouldn’t even respond to you anymore except that you keep putting words in my mouth. I did not say the transcripts “support my opinion.” My opinion is only my opinion.
I said the transcripts do not disprove my opinion, meaning you said there are facts that make my opinion B.S. I disagree with your accusation.
Where did your AEG not being liable remark come from?? No kidding. I realize AEG wasn’t liable, one of my first posts says that AEG won the trail, so why would I have a “dishonest” AEG agenda as I was accused by another. Maybe the fact a jury found that Murray was competent because he had a medical license goes back to this “absolute” victim discussion. Or as you would react, “LOL”
MegaMJ, you started the engagement with the following accusation:
“Heath: the slap wasn’t a big deal, Michael rented an overpriced home because he wanted to recklessly spend money he didn’t have, AND now you say drugs clouded his judgement. Dude, go somewhere with that nonsense ROTFLMAO! There are plenty of other MJ sites disguised as loving Michael but, really love AEG, Sony, and the executors more that will enjoy your BS.”
In other words, MegaMJ, you said my opinion was nonsense and BS. (It’s true you didn’t say my opinion was wrong, just nonsense and B.S.)That’s what I was defending. You further have said repeatedly that my opinion is not the facts.
First off,as we are aware,an opinion have to be a fact. The sky is blue=Fact. One doesn’t like blue= opinion.
Secondly, nothing in the transcripts proves my opinion is nonsense. Only your opinion is that my opinion is nonsense.
Last time…. The facts vs my opinion on 3 points that had you originally rolling on the floor and saying I was full of B.S.:
Fact: Michael COULD have sued for battery,(one can sue at will for many things) but he did not sue for for battery. The article regarding the slap incident described the emails, which included the slap email as, “shocking” and “incredibly disturbing.”
My opinion: I think the article over dramatized the notion the slap incident was shocking abuse and I might have slapped him too in that particular situation.
Fact: MJ allowed Tohme to help find a house and negotiate the rent. Because Tohme got a kickback in the Colony Capitol deal, some speculate Tohme, Hubert Guez, and Christian Audigier may have benefited from inflated rates at Carolwood. By realtor accessments, the rent should have been more in line of $25k to $30k month. MJ decided that Carolwood was the house he wanted, he agreed to pay $100k month, and AEG made an “artist advance” in a frozen account of 1.2 million dollars. It was a loan according to transcripts, which means AEG was not paying the rent, they were LOANING money for rent. An additional $5million was loaned, $3 million to pay off a sheik and $2million went to the Michael Jackson Company (loaned spending money that Tohme had access to).
My opinion: Michael was in huge debt, was living in excess and chose the house and to pay $100 month in grossly inflated rent, which was fiscally irresponsible.
Fact: When he died, Michael Jackson had a cocktail of anti-depressant and mood drugs in his system as well as a level of the anesthetic propofol typical of a patient undergoing major surgery. Michael allowed Murray to give him drugs.
My Opinion: drugs, the ones that MJ allowed Murray to administer, can cloud judgement. Clouded judgement can affect making sound responsible decisions.
I knew you were going to repeat those three things and you sure enough did. LOL!
You made a false accusation with snarky tone and you got respectfully served.
Hey, you are a “victim” of a dose of pragmatic logic and rational discourse. Maybe you could sue for battery or harassment. (not laughing out loud literally but kind of in my head).
ROFLMAO!
Those three points are all just your opinion dude. Always has been, always will be. The facts remain the facts.
Eureka “Dude”
From the dude who first said he didn’t read the transcripts & didn’t know the testimony to reading 5 months of testimony in about a week only to find……
…..your opinion wasn’t supported at trial no matter how you try to spin the testimony your way LOL. I hope by now you got to get all your feelings out about how Michael was responsible for his own death because he:
might of deserved to be slapped, spent recklessly, and his judgement was clouded by drugs.
Yup. I know your opinions by heart now ROTFLMAO!
All those posts on the 12th? Some of us already knew what you were pushing on your first post. If you really think the testimony supports your opinions, that’s cool but, psst, they don’t.
Sorry dude but, you’re just not getting your point (all three LOL) across here.
Too bad you can’t make a polite counter point of logic to the reasons I gave for my opinion. (You sound younger since you keep instigating the LOL thing.)
For ex you retorted above that AEG paid MJ’s rent as a counter argument to my opinion that he was spending recklessly. I pointed out the fact that MJ was IN DEBT to the rent and another 2 million artist advance credit line because it was a loan. I also said MJ’s rent was inflated because of the people he chose to associate with, and because he agreed to the rent terms, and was not responsible enough to make sure he didn’t pay $75,000 too much each month like a moron.
MegaMJ can you not give a reasonable counter instead of repeat the “victim” or “your opinion” talking point? We are not talking about who was responsible for his death, I just really want to know, do you think MJ was irresponsible or responsible with his money?
“When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.”
I need to “make a polite counter point of logic to the reasons I gave for my opinion?” LOL! Dude, you’re confused and it shows. NOW you say you really just wanna talk about Michael being responsible with HIS money.
ROFLMAO!
Dude, you’re the moron if you think for one minute Michael negotiated any of those terms for rent!
Shoot, I gotta help you out again??? Tohme worked for AEG AND Michael. AEG was getting the money back so they weren’t going to tell Michael to get something cheaper when THEY were raising costs FOR MICHAEL left & right without his consent.
…… But, you already knew that cause you read five months of transcripts in about a week.
There’s not an LOL big enough for that! LOLOLOLOLOLOL
You haven’t gotten your three points across in all of these posts. Step away from the keyboard and give me and everyone else a break, dude.
Correct. AEG loaned the rent money that Michael had to pay so they were getting it back. That means Michael was paying the rent. So we agree! Thanks for helping me!
If Michael signed an inducement letter that put him in an unconscionable contract or unfair letter of intent, then that action (you said Michael was responsible for his actions-we agree again!) would be his responsibility, and his estates responsibility to prove in court.
No comment about why that raised rent got approved now that you know for fact it wasn’t Michael’s fault? You don’t want to counter that Michael’s judgement was clouded by drugs when Tohme and AEG worked together to make sure Michael owed as much as possible? LOL!
Don’t even bring up Michael’s estate. If you read the transcripts, you would know they paid AEG’s bill no questions asked. It was shown in court AEG racked alot those bills up without Michael’s consent or even Tohme’s. Before you write back LOL, no the estate wasn’t going to question AEG’s bills. They joined AEG for that TII movie money and all so they weren’t going to question anything.
The rent and debt by law was Michael’s responsibility unless it is proven an unconscionable contract in court. Nothing to comment about. You lost on that point. Next.
Now you want to go back to the drugs? Ok.
You moved the goal posts and brought up recreational drugs. I never said anything about recreational drugs. I only said drugs cloud judgement. I specifically said the cocktail of mood drugs he had in his body according to the toxicology report can cloud judgement.
Do you disagree that drugs can cloud judgement?
You prove time and time again that you won’t rely on the actual testimony, just your opinion. SMH.
If you didn’t understand it the first, second, third, etc. time, Michael had nothing to do with the rent on that house. The rent wasn’t negotiated by him and it wasn’t paid by him. That’s not MY point, that’s FACT but, you still want to find some way, somehow to blame Michael.
You’re the last person I would discuss drugs with. ROTFLMAO. The facts are Michael’s confusion increased after May because of lack of sleep from propofol, not in late 2008 when he moved into Carolwood or when that contract was being signed (probably by Tohme) LOLOL! Also his confusion was about the artistic direction of TII! I bet that’s not what you think Michael was confused about but, that’s what testimony showed.
Sad part is, I bet you’re still not tired of coming up with lame opinions instead of relying on facts. You just want the last word no matter how dumb it reads.
Actually you did not prove a single time that the testimony disproves my opinion. You only flippantly called my opinion “nonsense” and said I should post my “B.S.” somewhere else.
Not once did I disrespect your opinion, nor have I put words in your mouth like you attempt to keep doing.
MegaMJ quote: “…..your opinion wasn’t supported at trial no matter how you try to spin the testimony your way LOL. I hope by now you got to get all your feelings out about how Michael was responsible for his own death because he: might of deserved to be slapped, spent recklessly, and his judgement was clouded by drugs.”
See, you did it again. I have emphasized the transcripts do NOT support my opinion; the context and debate was your accusation that my opinion was “B.S.” The testimony does not disprove nor contradict my opinion. I have not spun any testimony , and I NEVER said those 3 points were the reasons for Michael’s death! For you to put words in my mouth like that is asinine. The points were a separate defense of your attack, and the context of debate.
I also NEVER said Michael negotiated the rent. I said he was responsible for the rent, both because it is reasonable as a grown adult he should know what he is signing, and because he was LEGALLY obligated. And, YES, according to transcripts he DID pay for the Carolwood rent because by contractual agreement the money was LOANED and had to be paid back. It was debt that he could only obtain as an advance Letter of a Credit! It was a Promissory Note made in the name of both Michael Jackson’s Company and Michael Jackson the individual who jointly form an entity called “Maker” who promises by this promissory note to do as follows: “to pay on a joint and several basis, to AEG Live (“Holder” or “Promoter”) .. the principal amount of of $6,2 mln. with interest on such amount until paid…” signing the promissory note was the only way to pay back Sea Records. The other 2 million was the only way as you reminded that Phillips said, to “wipe his ass.”I.e. He was broke broke broke! This is a valid and reasonable point. I repeat it to defend your attack that my opinion he overspent “recklessly” (agreeing to accept $75,000 per month inflated rent is not an excuse to “protect” your children) was “nonsense” and “BS” and that I should post somewhere else. His rental house and obligation of debt and delivering certain commitment of services was only possible by the inducement letter. Whether he actually negotiated the agreement or even understood has nothing to do with the fact he was legally obligated once his signature was written, unless he could prove it wasn’t his signature or that there was an unconscionable contract.
You are the one spinning comments. Your opinion is absolutes. My opinions are made under the premise that I don’t believe in absolute victimization, and that Michael must be responsible and accountable for SOME decisions in his life and with whom he chose to surround himself and trust. All his woes and the toxic environment that led to his death were in some aspects directly or indirectly attributed to his choices and the path he chose. HIS responsibility. Unless you think he was a helpless ignorant naive man-child who needed to be coddled and sympathized. I don’t believe that. Not even close.
On drugs, the fact is we don’t know to what degree Michael’s judgement could have been clouded by anything he may have put in his body prior to the days Murray showed up, or during Murray’s involvement. You assumed I meant recreational drugs. I never thought that; you introduced that topic. My point was it didn’t make any sense that someone who has been described as business saavy, or at least being aware and involved in negotiations in the past could suddenly be so clueless and naive to choose and trust the wrong people to negotiate his business and have zero clue what was going on be it the rent, or any one sided or unfair contractual negotiations. The only statement I made on drugs before you attacked me was, “Seems to me when there is drugs involved, there is little hope of wise influence and responsible choices.” Anyone who knows about MJ and some of his true core support group he drifted from might agree this is a reasonable comment based on speculation that drugs might have clouded wise judgement. Once his core was gone things went south. His possible addiction issues, separation from his true friends & support group, and irresponsible fiscal habits had been an reoccurring issue long before the AEG proposal.
People like to say that Michael was not responsible for being manipulated by people in his business ventures. Well this video highlights the exact idiocy that (along with other factors) led Michael into the total financial disarray in his life:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf2vOaBzDrk
He knowingly gives his manager (Dieter-Wiesner of the time) the ability to sign checks of any money value; and when this manager eventually screws up his finances, is Michael not responsible for the repercussions?
In addition, this is a letter Barry Siegel wrote to MJ in January 2003:
January 22, 2003
Michael Jackson
Dear Michael:
I just received a phone call from Evvy indicating that Michael La Perruque needs more petty cash in Florida. The expense of keeping your entourage in Florida is very high. Although we have covered the hotel to date, I understand you are currently planning on moving from a room @ $975 per night to the Presidential suite @ $2500 per night. Please be aware that all of your funds for the month of January have now been depleted. There is no cash available to send to you. Expenses this month have been very high because of legal and other contractual arrangements, as well as packing and shipping of equipment and transportation for personnel to Florida.
I am very concerned that your entire subsistence is based upon drawing down on the Bank of America loans. These loans will soon be exhausted and there will be no funds available to support your lifestyle. It is my understanding that you have now decided not to tour or play the shows in Las Vegas. The television special should not provide any net income to you after expenses. With no additional income being earned, it has now become clear that you will no longer be able to support your lifestyle. We must get together at your convenience and I am willing to meet you anywhere to discuss this situation. I would suggest that Zia Modabber, John Branca, John McClain and if you desire Trudy Green attend this meeting. But in any case, it is extremely important that we get together to discuss the specifics of this and how you will maintain your lifestyle.
I cannot overstate the importance of us getting together or the extent to which this problem has grown. Please call me or have Evvy arrange for us to get together.
Sincerely,
[Barry Siegel]
——-
Michael just seemed to not accept the fact that he needed to live in reality and assess his lifestyle and financial conditions. He chose the opposite and promptly fired Seigel and Branca at the start of February with Weisner taking over.
Michael wasn’t [totally] this innocent victim he is made out to be.
That letter was when he was at the Miami Oriental. When he received it, per usual, he was shattered and shocked (started to cry), as if this was earth shattering news, because it was not what he wanted to hear- an rebuke of his lifestyle by those profiting on his behalf. Then, he makes the knee jerk reaction and fires anyone who tells him anything he doesn’t want to hear. He appoints Weisner and Konitzer, who hire LeGrand. Within 4 days of that letter he gives them power of attorney, then another 4 days he fires John Branca, Barry Siegel , Brian Wolf, Trudy Green, and Howard Kaufman.
Of course, during the lawsuit with Weisner in 2007, MJ admits in deposition that he was impaired by prescription drugs during that time period which was when Farshchian was around.
It’s the same story. Anyone wise business leader will tell you that you don’t make knee jerk reactions. It’s like a pilot that’s lost his horizon flying over a dark ocean. You can’t panic and just pull back because you might dive into the ocean. You trust your instruments and make small adjustments. It’s about being responsible , doing due diligence, and surrounding yourself with the vetted professional people under a proper hierarchy of accountability, reconciliation and auditing. You can just let whoever gets in your ear and tell you what you want to hear. That seemed to be what was really going on.
Correction * I NEVER said those 3 points were the reasons that Michael was responsible for his own death! ( I also definitely don’t fill like Michael was solely responsible) For you to put words in my mouth like that is asinine.
Heath, same post, different day. ROTFLMAO!
BTW, actual testimony isn’t my opinion. If you knew the testimony, you would know that.
I apparently know the testimony better than you.
Sina, good news: Jacksons filed a rehearing for their appeal.
It will be just like the petition for the new trial where the judge denies it but, it buys time before going to SC. Katherine’s not going down without a fight! Yay!
Yeah, yay, she gets to give attorneys more money. The attorneys are celebrating too. They get to tap the “MegaVictims” some more
@ Mega J . I expected her to . She is a rock, comments on a forum are the least she will be intimidated by.
No one questions Joan Rivers daughter who is suing the clinic/employer of the doctor whose maltreatment caused her mothers death – exactly the same way Murray did but with all the equipment they had to save her. Noone tells her she should get over it or that she already has enough money. But KJ is called greedy or oh contradiction , wasting – her- money.
There is overwhelming evidence that the whole ’Team’ knew that Michael was in poor health and Gongaware /Philips blamed the doctor for it. They intervened in the doctor/patient relationship, stalled his contract and threatened him AND Michael, so taking responsibility for his treatment of Michael. Vice versa they made Murray responsible for obligations that were AEGs(the insurance), or Dileos or whoever was managing MJ( showing up, rehearsing etc) . Gongaware knew about Michels problems with touring from the cancelled Dangerous tour. In negotiating his contract with AEG ( Not with Michael!) Murray asked for 2 extracorporeal CPR units to be included in his contract. Yet no one in AEGs corner asked why an artist who was heading for 50 concerts needed ECCPR. Murray was sentenced, which was exceptional since doctors are overly protected and often get away with their crimes ( Klein ,Metzger and others).
I do not exclude Michaels responsibility, but he paid the ultimate price. (Though for some it does not seem to be enough , he should be dragged and ridiculed). Imo AEG should also be sued for fraud and swindle,misleading Michel into signing a bogus conflicted contract, with one and the same lawyer representing both parties, which will never happen.
But for their liability in the circumstances that lead to Michaels death they should not escape justice.
I agree with you on the misleading part. I see many questionable items with the contract starting out with the 90/10 split. MJ did not have good representation on his side. Which brings back to front: the contract was signed; was the contract unconscionable from any standpoint.
Sina, so true about the Jacksons and Rivers. The Jacksons are tough but, some fans believe & push that media BS about the Jacksons on MJ forums. All the money the MJ estate used suing people left and right and still spending but, they’re heroes, right? SMDH.
The only ones who can sue AEG on the contract is the MJ Estate & they didn’t sue AEG cause they’re in business with them. They gave them all the money they asked for without any questions even though the trial showed AEG caused alot of those expenses without Michael’s consent.
I don’t blame Michael for one minute for AEG’s & Murray’s nonsense. It’s just WRONG what they BOTH did but, California thinks they did enough by putting Murray away for two years when he should’ve went down for murder! I hope Katherine can make it to SC and I hope the SC will really look at this case and see the problem with the verdict.
‘The only ones who can sue AEG on the contract is the MJ Estate & they didn’t sue AEG cause they’re in business with them. ‘
Thanks to Randy Philips media whoring we know that Branca had bugged AEG to join the TII project .He came in handy for AEG to repair the contract problem and for sony related businesses, so AEG hired him, not Michael. If a bilateral contract between MJ and JB existed it would have leaked a long time ago as it is the policy of the MJE executors to leak whatever is in their interest or dirt that hurts others.
Weizman made it perfectly clear where the executors loyalties lie with their public statement against KJ in the AEG case . It was downright sabotage and a transparant attempt to sway public opinion.The ‘reputable’ lawyers who got rid of Michaels debts against the greedy Jackson family.
I wish Michael had a radar for bs and had made different choices , but I do not blame him, he IS the victim of Murrays recklessnes and AEGs unscrupulous business mentality.
“I wish Michael had a radar for bs and had made different choices , but I do not blame him..”
Sina, agree with you again but, I really don’t trust the will and that’s all I say on that. LOL.
Westlake Thriller recordings:locks self in bathroom -boo hoo hoo
Reagan Whitehouse: locks self in bathroom-boo hoo hoo
Rock My World video: locks self in bathroom -boo hoo hoo
Maybe he is a victim of not manning up and acting like the world doesn’t revolve around himself. A victim of self loath. Stop the pity party, grow some, and BE RESPONSIBLE! That’s what a true friend would tell him!
Don’t want to be victimized, then don’t consistently hire, surround, and choose people that victimize you! Boo hoo freakin hoo…
*Westlake-went into other studio, not bathroom, can’t get technicalities wrong might get attacked
I just noticed Joan Rivers was absent from the Oscars memoriam, and the Grammys too. Few people care or even know about the Rivers lawsuit about compared to MJ. Plus it’s a different type of fanbase-rock stars are “rock stars,” not to mention Joan Rivers lived a long life; MJ left too soon and his passing was shocking.
Oppa: Why don't you go buy pads too th?ouAnnnymoes: Haha odd though since I've never seen any angmoh with this kind of hair colour.
Ça fait plaisir à lire, puisse tout le monde lire et comprendre ce que vous dîtes.Dès que le religieux se mêle de politique, ça n’est jamais bon signe et c’est pourtant ce qui se passe en ce moment un peu trop souvent.Et la foi n’a bien souvent plus grand chose à voir avec les actes et discours de certains qui s’en réclament.
Je soupçonne ReD BaRoNnE d’être petro déguisée ou un(e) espion(ne) internationale puisqu’elle est preum’s chaque jour… Stéphou ? uhuuhuhhuhhuhhhuhhhhu Ils découvrent le trésor des medicis a Venise ? Heuuu je vais réviser mon histoire.
×Âמ×Âלהההההה התמונה פשוטט הורסתתת ×Âותיי יו×Âובבב כמה הוניכול להיות מתוקקקקקקקק ל×Âכול ×Âותו ×Âיזה חומדדד פרצוףףף כזהה שווה 10000000000 ×Âיןןןןן ×Âיןןן עליךךך
Heath… I have to chime in here..( NO, I am not going to rehash your debate with others)
Your “story” of the red light and crash is NOT a plausible analogy…
1… Conrad Murray was suppose to be a health care professional!!
He had a duty to his patient to care for him in a responsible manner…
He took an oath to uphold the medical standards of care, regardless of his patient…
Michael was like anyone else under the Care of a Dr… He put his FAITH and TRUST in his hands… Murray KNEW he should not be administering Propofol out of a hospital setting.. He did do it because ” he felt empathy for MJ’s insomnia “!! He did it because HIS employer AEG wanted him to have Michael on that stage by any means necessary!! PERIOD…
He sat back and watched MJ’s weight deminish, he sat back and watched him deteriorate both physically and emotionally!! That is unexceptional as a practioner of health!!
AEG did NOT care if his health was declining, they only wanted him on that stage!! They hired Murray, they paid him, they failed to check him out, they failed to listen to people around them screaming something was off. They saw a problem and did NOTHING to ensure Michael’s safety.. Which they had a moral, legal, ethical, responsibility to do..
Murray MURDERED his patient, and AEG is abetted him in it!!
They should be held accountable…
The only reason they were not, is because the defense painted Michael as a raging drug addict!! And there is not one shred of proof that this is a fact in his later years…
He HAD a drug problem and took care of it..
It is a fact he had health issues that required him to have certain medical treatment over the years. That is a tenuous balancing act when you have had problems in the past.
However, in 2009 he was NOT taking any medications that you would abuse for a ” high”..
So to compare a willful act such as “running a red light” to putting your faith in a “healthcare professional” and stating we are “playing the blame game” is quite absurd..
I respectfully disagree that my analogy is not plausible or absurd. The analogy was intended to point out the fallacy of absolute victimization, not to simply say running a redlight is the same as entrusting a health care professional. The fact a defense was able to sway a jury, or the fact a plaintiff could NOT sway a jury, regardless of strategy, only supports my opinion that there may be responsibilities burdened by more than one party. Furthermore, I have not addressed “we” and didn’t know it was me against “we.”
My long winded engagement was my own defense against an individual who attacked my opinion.
Satan stinks, and all who are guilty of the demise of such a good person as Michael Jackson, will pay on Judgement Day. It does not matter about their power, their weapons, or their badges. It does not matter that they are totally exempt from being prosecuted for their horrible crimes against humanity, and all the poor innocent animals they kill on a regular basis. It does not matter if they are supreme court judges or the queen of whatever country. God will NOT be mocked, and is the true
Ultimate Judge of all. He will have the final say as to who shall burn in that eternal lake of fire in the bowels of the earth. The Lord is the ultimate authority, not stinking men and women who are vile and corrupt, encrusted in sin. Though we are all sinners, only those who repent and believe shall be saved. The Lord will know who is lying without some polygraph test. He knows all things, and the wrath of the Lord is upon is. He is kind, merciful, and loving, but He is also sad, angry, and even jealous when people place other gods before Him, because in reality, He is the only true God worthy of praise, as we shall all find out someday. Keep on mocking Him, and his people, and you shall find out what true HELL is. I am not perfect, for I am human. However, I am His servant for my own good. Life is too damned short, and He is all there is in the END.